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Re: Trump pressured Comey to end Flynn investigation
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
7/29/2008 4:48 pm
From Deadwood, Lakota Territory
Posts: 8114
Quote:

Eers88 wrote:
Do you really not believe these documents exist? It is pretty standard in the legal world to draft a memo to a file when you have a conversation you want to memorialize. If I have conversations with clients about settlement, for instance, I document the conversation so that they cannot later say they didn't agree if they get buyer's remorse. If you draft it on a computer, the meta data shows the time you drafted it, along with any edits. Your "analysis" is flawed. Comey did do something, and it wasn't a post it. What specifically should he have done other than document the conversations? Go to the press? You far right wing folks won't believe any evidence. You are aligning yourselves with people accused of being traitors, and who have obviously and openly shared top secret intelligence with a hostile country, and you are attacking the FBI, yet call yourselves patriots and pro law enforcement.


Well ... then ... you are smart enough to realize that just because one party "documents" their interpretation of what was said ... that does not make it above challenge.

In fact ... it makes me MORE suspicious of the person that felt the need to CYA with a self-supporting "memo."

Your attorney-client example is not even in the same league as President-FBI Director. It does not even come close in terms of the comparable levels of sophistication and understanding of the participants in the conversation.

PS - Go tell your boss that you write down your interpretation of every conversation you have with him and have it saved on your computer.

Posted on: 5/20 3:35 pm
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Re: Trump pressured Comey to end Flynn investigation
Pitt Hater
Joined:
7/21/2008 9:57 pm
From North Central, WV
Posts: 1746
Quote:

Eers88 wrote:
Do you really not believe these documents exist? It is pretty standard in the legal world to draft a memo to a file when you have a conversation you want to memorialize. If I have conversations with clients about settlement, for instance, I document the conversation so that they cannot later say they didn't agree if they get buyer's remorse. If you draft it on a computer, the meta data shows the time you drafted it, along with any edits. Your "analysis" is flawed. Comey did do something, and it wasn't a post it. What specifically should he have done other than document the conversations? Go to the press? You far right wing folks won't believe any evidence. You are aligning yourselves with people accused of being traitors, and who have obviously and openly shared top secret intelligence with a hostile country, and you are attacking the FBI, yet call yourselves patriots and pro law enforcement.


Proof? You call anonymous hearsay proof? Hearsay from specific press that have obviously been acting under a specific political agenda for years. I'll believe there is a memo when I see it, and I'd advise you to do the same.

If these overwhelming number of accusations turn out to be BS, then who have you aligned yourself with with? Accusations from anonymous sources without any hard evidence sounds like defamation of character to me.

You sir are as narrow minded as anyone else on this board. Perhaps you should take a hard look in the mirror.

Posted on: 5/21 3:39 am
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Re: Trump pressured Comey to end Flynn investigation
Pitt Hater
Joined:
7/21/2008 9:57 pm
From North Central, WV
Posts: 1746
Quote:

sg44gold wrote:
Quote:

Eers88 wrote:
Do you really not believe these documents exist? It is pretty standard in the legal world to draft a memo to a file when you have a conversation you want to memorialize. If I have conversations with clients about settlement, for instance, I document the conversation so that they cannot later say they didn't agree if they get buyer's remorse. If you draft it on a computer, the meta data shows the time you drafted it, along with any edits. Your "analysis" is flawed. Comey did do something, and it wasn't a post it. What specifically should he have done other than document the conversations? Go to the press? You far right wing folks won't believe any evidence. You are aligning yourselves with people accused of being traitors, and who have obviously and openly shared top secret intelligence with a hostile country, and you are attacking the FBI, yet call yourselves patriots and pro law enforcement.


Well ... then ... you are smart enough to realize that just because one party "documents" their interpretation of what was said ... that does not make it above challenge.

In fact ... it makes me MORE suspicious of the person that felt the need to CYA with a self-supporting "memo."

Your attorney-client example is not even in the same league as President-FBI Director. It does not even come close in terms of the comparable levels of sophistication and understanding of the participants in the conversation.

PS - Go tell your boss that you write down your interpretation of every conversation you have with him and have it saved on your computer.



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Posted on: 5/21 5:10 am
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Re: Trump pressured Comey to end Flynn investigation
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
4/5/2008 11:37 am
From Madison, AL
Posts: 8102
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Posted on: 5/21 7:42 am
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Re: Trump pressured Comey to end Flynn investigation
Pitt Hater
Joined:
7/21/2008 9:57 pm
From North Central, WV
Posts: 1746
Hearsay Rule
http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx/Default.aspx?selected=859

I don't see anything in there that would qualify an "excerpt" read over the phone by some "obscure individual" as admissible evidence.

Posted on: 5/21 8:57 am
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Re: Trump pressured Comey to end Flynn investigation
Pitt Hater
Joined:
8/22/2007 7:48 pm
From Frederick, MD
Posts: 2487
Bottom line is Trump can fire the FBI director anytime he wants for any reason he wants. No laws were broken.

Trump can also pressure the FBI director to do anything he wants him to do. The FBI dir can simply refuse, and wait to be fired if he does not want to comply, or resign. Even if true about the Russian investigation, no laws were broken. If the people don't like it, impeach him. Its your only recourse.

I wonder why Comey didn't simply resign if Trump was out of line?

Nothing to see here folks. There is no there.

Posted on: 5/22 12:25 pm
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Re: Trump pressured Comey to end Flynn investigation

Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 12600
Quote:

EERY wrote:

Proof? You call anonymous hearsay proof? Hearsay from specific press that have obviously been acting under a specific political agenda for years. I'll believe there is a memo when I see it, and I'd advise you to do the same.


It isn't anonymous. Comey said he has memos, plural. He memorialized his conversations with Trump at the time they occurred.

Quote:


If these overwhelming number of accusations turn out to be BS, then who have you aligned yourself with with? Accusations from anonymous sources without any hard evidence sounds like defamation of character to me.



Again, not anonymous. And I am aligning myself with federal law enforcement and the legal system. I trust in both.

Quote:


You sir are as narrow minded as anyone else on this board. Perhaps you should take a hard look in the mirror.


Damn I look good!

Posted on: 5/22 1:01 pm
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Re: Trump pressured Comey to end Flynn investigation

Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 12600
Quote:

83Grad wrote:
Bottom line is Trump can fire the FBI director anytime he wants for any reason he wants. No laws were broken.

Trump can also pressure the FBI director to do anything he wants him to do. The FBI dir can simply refuse, and wait to be fired if he does not want to comply, or resign. Even if true about the Russian investigation, no laws were broken. If the people don't like it, impeach him. Its your only recourse.

I wonder why Comey didn't simply resign if Trump was out of line?

Nothing to see here folks. There is no there.


This isn't true. He cannot fire the FBI Director, or anybody else, if doing so is obstructing justice or violates another law. It is more complex than you are making it. You are correct though that the impeachment process and criminal process have different standards. Kudos to you.

Posted on: 5/22 1:04 pm
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Re: Trump pressured Comey to end Flynn investigation

Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 12600
Quote:

EERY wrote:
Hearsay Rule
http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx/Default.aspx?selected=859

I don't see anything in there that would qualify an "excerpt" read over the phone by some "obscure individual" as admissible evidence.


If you are talking about the memo, than you would only need a hearsay analysis with regard to the memo if it was proffered into evidence itself as an exhibit. I doubt you would do that given that Comey is available, but there may be a reason why. There are several exceptions that may apply, including business records (which is somewhat of a misnomer), present sense impression, and others. Even if the memo were not admitted itself, Comey could still use it to refresh his recollection of the conversation with Trump if he had trouble remembering it. I don't know why you would do anything of this, although there may be a reason, given Comey's availability to testify.

Why do you keep referencing "obscure individuals" and "anonymous" sources? Comey said he has the memo, and others, did he not?

Posted on: 5/22 1:09 pm
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Re: Trump pressured Comey to end Flynn investigation

Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 12600
Quote:

sg44gold wrote:

Well ... then ... you are smart enough to realize that just because one party "documents" their interpretation of what was said ... that does not make it above challenge.


Correct.

Quote:


In fact ... it makes me MORE suspicious of the person that felt the need to CYA with a self-supporting "memo."


This is silly. Think this through. If Comey drafts a memo on his computer after a conversation with Trump, the computer time stamps the keystrokes. You can determine when he drafted it, so he cannot later draft a phony memo. How would Comey know AT THAT TIME to draft a memo that says "Trump said x, y and z."? How would he know the manner in which it plays out? How could he be sure that he isn't going to put something in it that turns out not to be true later? More importantly, WHAT REASON WOULD HE HAVE FOR TYPING A MEMO FILLED WITH FABRICATIONS? It makes no sense whatsoever to do that.

Quote:


Your attorney-client example is not even in the same league as President-FBI Director. It does not even come close in terms of the comparable levels of sophistication and understanding of the participants in the conversation.

PS - Go tell your boss that you write down your interpretation of every conversation you have with him and have it saved on your computer.


With all due respect, Trump hasn't shown himself to be particularly sophisticated. I don't have a boss.

Posted on: 5/22 1:17 pm
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Re: Trump pressured Comey to end Flynn investigation

Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 12600
This room is filled with anxious Trumpers. Back'em into a corner and they resort to bumper stickers and memes.

Posted on: 5/22 1:21 pm
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Re: Trump pressured Comey to end Flynn investigation
Pitt Hater
Joined:
8/22/2007 7:48 pm
From Frederick, MD
Posts: 2487
Quote:

Eers88 wrote:
Quote:

83Grad wrote:
Bottom line is Trump can fire the FBI director anytime he wants for any reason he wants. No laws were broken.

Trump can also pressure the FBI director to do anything he wants him to do. The FBI dir can simply refuse, and wait to be fired if he does not want to comply, or resign. Even if true about the Russian investigation, no laws were broken. If the people don't like it, impeach him. Its your only recourse.

I wonder why Comey didn't simply resign if Trump was out of line?

Nothing to see here folks. There is no there.


This isn't true. He cannot fire the FBI Director, or anybody else, if doing so is obstructing justice or violates another law. It is more complex than you are making it. You are correct though that the impeachment process and criminal process have different standards. Kudos to you.


How does firing the FBI director obstruct justice? Especially since the acting FBI Director, Mcabe, is an Obama appointee and said it will have no effect on the investigation?

What law did Trump break?

Posted on: 5/22 7:52 pm
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Re: Trump pressured Comey to end Flynn investigation
Grant Ave. Warrior
Joined:
8/21/2013 9:51 pm
From Madhattan
Posts: 997
Quote:

Eers88 wrote:
This room is filled with anxious Trumpers. Back'em into a corner and they resort to bumper stickers and memes.


Classic...True.

Posted on: 5/22 9:39 pm
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Re: Trump pressured Comey to end Flynn investigation
Pitt Hater
Joined:
7/21/2008 9:57 pm
From North Central, WV
Posts: 1746
Quote:

Eers88 wrote:
Quote:

EERY wrote:

Proof? You call anonymous hearsay proof? Hearsay from specific press that have obviously been acting under a specific political agenda for years. I'll believe there is a memo when I see it, and I'd advise you to do the same.


It isn't anonymous. Comey said he has memos, plural. He memorialized his conversations with Trump at the time they occurred.

Quote:


If these overwhelming number of accusations turn out to be BS, then who have you aligned yourself with with? Accusations from anonymous sources without any hard evidence sounds like defamation of character to me.



Again, not anonymous. And I am aligning myself with federal law enforcement and the legal system. I trust in both.

Quote:




You sir are as narrow minded as anyone else on this board. Perhaps you should take a hard look in the mirror.


Damn I look good!


Yes Comey says he has memos, but he has never expressed anything along the lines of this specific conversation. At this point nobody with an actual identity given in public has proclaimed to have seen this specific memo or to have written this memo. When someone is willing to step forward and base their reputation on it, then I will look at it in a different light. Right now it seems that the bias liberal media will jump at anything to write a negative article about our President. Their liberal readers gobble it up like guppies in a fish bowl.

Posted on: 5/23 12:23 am
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Re: Trump pressured Comey to end Flynn investigation
Pitt Hater
Joined:
7/21/2008 9:57 pm
From North Central, WV
Posts: 1746
Quote:

Eers88 wrote:
This room is filled with anxious Trumpers. Back'em into a corner and they resort to bumper stickers and memes.


Of all the posts I've ever read from you, I've never seen you use your knowledge of the law in an unbiased manner. You form each argument from the basis that you are a lawyer, and by that fact you are some self-admonished authority on every topic. Just because you have a good way to form an argument doesn't mean anything. Your starting point is so narrow that your reasoning is limited. Very bumper sticker worthy in my opinion. Damn you look foolish.

Posted on: 5/23 12:33 am
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Re: Trump pressured Comey to end Flynn investigation
Pitt Hater
Joined:
7/21/2008 9:57 pm
From North Central, WV
Posts: 1746
Quote:

hill_William wrote:
Quote:

Eers88 wrote:
This room is filled with anxious Trumpers. Back'em into a corner and they resort to bumper stickers and memes.


Classic...True.


Well 88 at least your little sister thinks you are cool.

Posted on: 5/23 12:35 am
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Re: Trump pressured Comey to end Flynn investigation
Pitt Hater
Joined:
7/21/2008 9:57 pm
From North Central, WV
Posts: 1746
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Posted on: 5/23 1:15 am
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Re: Trump pressured Comey to end Flynn investigation

Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 12600
Quote:

83Grad wrote:
Quote:

Eers88 wrote:
Quote:

83Grad wrote:
Bottom line is Trump can fire the FBI director anytime he wants for any reason he wants. No laws were broken.

Trump can also pressure the FBI director to do anything he wants him to do. The FBI dir can simply refuse, and wait to be fired if he does not want to comply, or resign. Even if true about the Russian investigation, no laws were broken. If the people don't like it, impeach him. Its your only recourse.

I wonder why Comey didn't simply resign if Trump was out of line?

Nothing to see here folks. There is no there.


This isn't true. He cannot fire the FBI Director, or anybody else, if doing so is obstructing justice or violates another law. It is more complex than you are making it. You are correct though that the impeachment process and criminal process have different standards. Kudos to you.


How does firing the FBI director obstruct justice? Especially since the acting FBI Director, Mcabe, is an Obama appointee and said it will have no effect on the investigation?

What law did Trump break?


I didn't say he broke any law or that he obstructed justice. I said that just because the president has the authority to fire the FBI Director doesn't mean that there are no other restrictions on the firing, whether civil or criminal. Specifically, I said that he cannot fire the FBI Director if doing so obstructs justice. Attempting to influence a federal investigation is obstruction, whether or not you are successful. In any event, if he did it then it isn't a defense to say "I have the authority to fire him."

Posted on: 5/23 2:38 pm
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Re: Trump pressured Comey to end Flynn investigation

Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 12600
Quote:

EERY wrote:
Quote:

Eers88 wrote:
This room is filled with anxious Trumpers. Back'em into a corner and they resort to bumper stickers and memes.


Of all the posts I've ever read from you, I've never seen you use your knowledge of the law in an unbiased manner. You form each argument from the basis that you are a lawyer, and by that fact you are some self-admonished authority on every topic. Just because you have a good way to form an argument doesn't mean anything. Your starting point is so narrow that your reasoning is limited. Very bumper sticker worthy in my opinion. Damn you look foolish.


Or, I don't render opinions about topics I don't know something about. I am an employment and civil rights lawyer, and I talk on here about employment law and civil rights. I don't know what you do for a living, but whatever it is, I would respect your judgment on it.

"A good way to form an argument" is actually the key to argument. It is called logic. There is a process and it doesn't start with a conclusion and then a hunt for facts or the creation of alternative facts to prove the conclusion.

BTW - It isn't bias. It is opinion. You right wingers go apoplectic when someone doesn't agree with you, like Trump and the judiciary. It is immediately "bias." I don't think you know what bias means, but it doesn't mean having a different opinion.

BTW2 - why can't you folks stick to the topic? I don't come here to talk about me or my practice. I come to talk about the subject of the thread. Let's see how long you can go without getting personal with someone.

Posted on: 5/23 2:45 pm
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Re: Trump pressured Comey to end Flynn investigation
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
4/5/2008 11:37 am
From Madison, AL
Posts: 8102
Quote:

Eers88 wrote:
This room is filled with anxious Trumpers. Back'em into a corner and they resort to bumper stickers and memes.


Naw, we just enjoy sitting back and watching whiny ass liberals try so hard at anything and accomplish nothing.
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Posted on: 5/23 3:08 pm
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