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Re: Carter summits name for NBA Draft
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
8/2/2010 10:50 am
From Canonsburg, PA
Posts: 4749
I would suggest that Carter forego an agent and hire a sherpa.

I think they are more valuable in these situations.

Posted on: 5/1 2:32 pm
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Re: Carter summits name for NBA Draft
Party Machine
Joined:
9/2/2007 12:20 am
From Chucktown
Posts: 668
Quote:

TheMac wrote:


That's my issue with these NBA Draft evaluations, it makes the players go into business for themselves when they come back. They're not interested in team achievements, only what can improve their draft stock.


Which is reasonable, unfortunately. The NCAA is allowing itself to be used as a minor league, and this is what happens in a minor league. Or a poorly paid apprenticeship in any field for that matter.

The NBA could really use a viable development league. If all 30 teams had a full minor team that paid at all decently, a lot of borderline aspiring pros that need to develop NBA specific skills like being able to hit an NBA three could just move on already.

If you force every NBA team to also field a full d-league team w/ a 75K min salary where all salaries for both teams fall under a single cap, and increase the draft to four or five rounds, all this nonsense disappears. One and done players uninterested in an education go the d-league route. The NBA easily has the money to do this.

The NCAA losing some elite athletes isn't going to hurt it much. School support and the inherent dramatic excitement of the tournament is what drives the bus.

Posted on: 5/2 8:41 am
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Re: Carter summits name for NBA Draft
Pitt Hater
Joined:
6/26/2010 9:15 am
Posts: 2274
Even though I agree with most everything you say, how do you know a d-league could support itself?
75k per player, support staff, coaches, venues, etc. cost.
How about a business plan to backup this statement? Easy to sit in front of a computer and type, isn't it?

Posted on: 5/3 7:39 am
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Re: Carter summits name for NBA Draft
WMITC
Joined:
8/28/2006 11:40 am
From Parkersburg, WV
Posts: 8574
Quote:

joedaddyski wrote:
Even though I agree with most everything you say, how do you know a d-league could support itself?
75k per player, support staff, coaches, venues, etc. cost.
How about a business plan to backup this statement? Easy to sit in front of a computer and type, isn't it?


Lord knows those D league arenas in Des Moines and Minnetonka will be packed to the rafters with eager fans waiting to see who is going to be the next Drew Goodson or Lou Amundson.

Sorry. I saw a chance for smart ass and piled on. I could not help myself.

Posted on: 5/3 8:09 am
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Re: Carter summits name for NBA Draft
Pitt Hater
Joined:
9/7/2008 9:59 am
From Athens GA
Posts: 1612
You're not going to lure kids away from KY and NC with $75k/yr.

Posted on: 5/3 6:58 pm
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Re: Carter summits name for NBA Draft
WMITC
Joined:
8/28/2006 11:40 am
From Parkersburg, WV
Posts: 8574
Quote:

SicPuppy wrote:
You're not going to lure kids away from KY and NC with $75k/yr.


Definitely a pay cut.

Posted on: 5/4 8:12 am
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Re: Carter summits name for NBA Draft
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
7/29/2008 4:48 pm
From Deadwood, Lakota Territory
Posts: 8212
Quote:

wvmtneer wrote:
Quote:

SicPuppy wrote:
You're not going to lure kids away from KY and NC with $75k/yr.


Definitely a pay cut.


Ha! Ha! Yep.

Their free "education" (even for one year), room and board are worth more than that.

And, when you add in the cars for the player, his mom, and his grandmother ... you are WAY over $75 net.

Posted on: 5/4 8:44 am
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Re: Carter summits name for NBA Draft
Party Machine
Joined:
9/2/2007 12:20 am
From Chucktown
Posts: 668
Quote:

joedaddyski wrote:
Even though I agree with most everything you say, how do you know a d-league could support itself?
75k per player, support staff, coaches, venues, etc. cost.
How about a business plan to backup this statement? Easy to sit in front of a computer and type, isn't it?


It isn't a question of a d-league supporting itself. It would be part of the NBA system.

The NBA might have a little bit of money, and they are moving slowly in this direction because it makes financial sense and can be an advantage on the court to control player development, which can create a ton of value.

Assuming no revenue at all, operating a d-league team costs about the same as a borderline rotation player. Based on what I can find about d-league finances, it is roughly two million. Changing the salary would cost maybe a half-million on top of that, possibly far less because the two-way nature would flatten the salary structure as the NBA team would be able to sign marginal players to contracts that better reflect future value.

What the NBA loses on speculative contracts could fund a whole pile of d-leagues.

Posted on: 5/4 9:45 am
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Re: Carter summits name for NBA Draft
Party Machine
Joined:
9/2/2007 12:20 am
From Chucktown
Posts: 668
Quote:

SicPuppy wrote:
You're not going to lure kids away from KY and NC with $75k/yr.


75K is a minimum. Without the age rule the choice is more like $3M + endorsement deals vs. college for the very best players.

The 75K vs. college is more an issue for the marginal players. It presents a financially reasonable choice for those not interested in education but unwilling to learn Turkish.

Posted on: 5/4 10:14 am
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Re: Carter summits name for NBA Draft
Grant Ave. Warrior
Joined:
6/25/2014 9:05 am
From Dunedin FL
Posts: 793
If they're not interested in education they probably CAN'T learn Turkish, either....

Posted on: 5/4 11:47 am
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Re: Carter summits name for NBA Draft
Party Machine
Joined:
9/2/2007 12:20 am
From Chucktown
Posts: 668
Quote:

FL77Mounty wrote:
If they're not interested in education they probably CAN'T learn Turkish, either....


Enough to get by as a pro basketball player.

Phrases like:

"I'd like a hamburger."

"Can you take me to the basketball arena"

"We don't need a condom, I've had a vasectomy"

etc.




Posted on: 5/11 12:10 pm
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Re: Carter summits name for NBA Draft
Pitt Hater
Joined:
4/10/2008 3:02 pm
From Halifax, VA
Posts: 1620
NC pays there players more than $75k. I have a friend who played there and when he graduated was not good enough for the pros and ended up taking a major cut in salary with a job in the private sector.

Posted on: 5/11 12:16 pm
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Re: Carter summits name for NBA Draft

Joined:
12/7/2009 7:07 pm
From Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 12716
Quote:

joedaddyski wrote:
Even though I agree with most everything you say, how do you know a d-league could support itself?
75k per player, support staff, coaches, venues, etc. cost.
How about a business plan to backup this statement? Easy to sit in front of a computer and type, isn't it?


He isn't saying the D League would need to be self sustaining. He is saying that the NBA should invest in a D League with higher salaries. I don't think the issue is one of whether the money to sustain it is there. The issue is whether the NBA sees a return on investment to make it worthwhile. The proposed system is similar to European football (soccer) clubs who field a team in the highest leagues, a reserve team in a lower league, and a youth squad in a youth league. These clubs invest huge sums of money in player development, and the players all train together so the youngest players get an understanding of the discipline necessary to make it at a major club. Their system for transferring players, however, involves selling the rights to the player for money, rather than a trade. When a transfer occurs, there are two negotiations: one between clubs for the transfer of rights; and, one between the new club and the player for salary, etc. Clubs can make tens or hundreds of millions of dollars by selling a player, so player development can actually be a revenue stream. The NBA is more limited, however, because they trade for players or draft picks. They would really be investing in a system to develop players for their own NBA rosters, and it doesn't seem like they are hurting for bodies.

Posted on: 5/12 11:17 am
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Re: Carter summits name for NBA Draft
Pitt Hater
Joined:
6/26/2010 9:15 am
Posts: 2274
Quote:

Eers88 wrote:
Quote:

joedaddyski wrote:
Even though I agree with most everything you say, how do you know a d-league could support itself?
75k per player, support staff, coaches, venues, etc. cost.
How about a business plan to backup this statement? Easy to sit in front of a computer and type, isn't it?


He isn't saying the D League would need to be self sustaining. He is saying that the NBA should invest in a D League with higher salaries. I don't think the issue is one of whether the money to sustain it is there. The issue is whether the NBA sees a return on investment to make it worthwhile. The proposed system is similar to European football (soccer) clubs who field a team in the highest leagues, a reserve team in a lower league, and a youth squad in a youth league. These clubs invest huge sums of money in player development, and the players all train together so the youngest players get an understanding of the discipline necessary to make it at a major club. Their system for transferring players, however, involves selling the rights to the player for money, rather than a trade. When a transfer occurs, there are two negotiations: one between clubs for the transfer of rights; and, one between the new club and the player for salary, etc. Clubs can make tens or hundreds of millions of dollars by selling a player, so player development can actually be a revenue stream. The NBA is more limited, however, because they trade for players or draft picks. They would really be investing in a system to develop players for their own NBA rosters, and it doesn't seem like they are hurting for bodies.

Well hell, why in the world didn't he just type that.

Posted on: 5/12 11:20 am
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Re: Carter summits name for NBA Draft
Grant Ave. Warrior
Joined:
3/21/2011 9:01 am
From Mobile, AL
Posts: 1005
That system however, would kill college basketball

Posted on: 5/14 1:28 pm
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Re: Carter summits name for NBA Draft
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
11/7/2009 9:27 pm
From Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 4215
Apparently Carter is back on campus, working out and enrolled in summer classes.

Posted on: 5/17 8:26 am
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Re: Carter summits name for NBA Draft
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
7/29/2008 4:48 pm
From Deadwood, Lakota Territory
Posts: 8212
Good for him. That is the smart move for his future.

And (selfishly) that is GREAT news for Mountaineer Fans!

Posted on: 5/17 8:44 am
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Re: Carter summits name for NBA Draft
Pitt Hater
Joined:
6/26/2010 9:15 am
Posts: 2274
Quote:

joedaddyski wrote:
Quote:

Eers88 wrote:
Quote:

joedaddyski wrote:
Even though I agree with most everything you say, how do you know a d-league could support itself?
75k per player, support staff, coaches, venues, etc. cost.
How about a business plan to backup this statement? Easy to sit in front of a computer and type, isn't it?


He isn't saying the D League would need to be self sustaining. He is saying that the NBA should invest in a D League with higher salaries. I don't think the issue is one of whether the money to sustain it is there. The issue is whether the NBA sees a return on investment to make it worthwhile. The proposed system is similar to European football (soccer) clubs who field a team in the highest leagues, a reserve team in a lower league, and a youth squad in a youth league. These clubs invest huge sums of money in player development, and the players all train together so the youngest players get an understanding of the discipline necessary to make it at a major club. Their system for transferring players, however, involves selling the rights to the player for money, rather than a trade. When a transfer occurs, there are two negotiations: one between clubs for the transfer of rights; and, one between the new club and the player for salary, etc. Clubs can make tens or hundreds of millions of dollars by selling a player, so player development can actually be a revenue stream. The NBA is more limited, however, because they trade for players or draft picks. They would really be investing in a system to develop players for their own NBA rosters, and it doesn't seem like they are hurting for bodies.

Well hell, why in the world didn't he just type that.

Bump - didn't see a confirmation yet.

Posted on: 5/17 11:10 am
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Re: Carter summits name for NBA Draft
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
4/5/2008 11:37 am
From Madison, AL
Posts: 8162
Big Man is coming back for his senior year!

Posted on: 5/17 8:02 pm
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Re: Carter summits name for NBA Draft
Party Machine
Joined:
9/2/2007 12:20 am
From Chucktown
Posts: 668
Quote:

joedaddyski wrote:
Quote:

joedaddyski wrote:
Quote:

Eers88 wrote:
Quote:

joedaddyski wrote:
Even though I agree with most everything you say, how do you know a d-league could support itself?
75k per player, support staff, coaches, venues, etc. cost.
How about a business plan to backup this statement? Easy to sit in front of a computer and type, isn't it?


He isn't saying the D League would need to be self sustaining. He is saying that the NBA should invest in a D League with higher salaries. I don't think the issue is one of whether the money to sustain it is there. The issue is whether the NBA sees a return on investment to make it worthwhile. The proposed system is similar to European football (soccer) clubs who field a team in the highest leagues, a reserve team in a lower league, and a youth squad in a youth league. These clubs invest huge sums of money in player development, and the players all train together so the youngest players get an understanding of the discipline necessary to make it at a major club. Their system for transferring players, however, involves selling the rights to the player for money, rather than a trade. When a transfer occurs, there are two negotiations: one between clubs for the transfer of rights; and, one between the new club and the player for salary, etc. Clubs can make tens or hundreds of millions of dollars by selling a player, so player development can actually be a revenue stream. The NBA is more limited, however, because they trade for players or draft picks. They would really be investing in a system to develop players for their own NBA rosters, and it doesn't seem like they are hurting for bodies.

Well hell, why in the world didn't he just type that.

Bump - didn't see a confirmation yet.


Conformation for what?

He's close, but not really what I was talking about.

The NBA is very much hurting for bodies capable of playing at an NBA level, and the current salary/development structure is extremely inefficient as to this. Having a d-league team and unlimited two way contracts under a single cap irons out a bunch of inefficiencies and would in the long run save way more money than it would cost.

It isn't a matter of just beefing up the d-league. There would also have to be significant changes to the CBA that cause these inefficiencies.

Right now, the rookie scale, max salary limit, salary floor, and restricted roster size combine to inflate the living hell out of the salaries of mid-tier veteran players. An NBA team is way better off in the long run in every way if can sign 10 or so prospects to decent small deals and develop them in-house in hopes of finding value than being forced to use that money to wildly overpay the likes of Jeremy Lin.

Posted on: 5/18 11:46 am
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