We Must Ignite This Couch Message Boards

« 1 (2) 3 4 5 ... 7 »

 
Re: Good-bye, MTR!
Pitt Hater
Joined:
1/4/2008 11:32 am
From Southwest VA ... via Pleasants County, USA
Posts: 1290
Quote:

jjmwvu wrote:
Drew, I am working on this project now and it 'may' be a viable option....someday.

http://www.wvgs.wvnet.edu/www/geothermal/index.html


I've been reading about this. GREAT work. Keep it up!

Posted on: 1/14/2011 4:23 pm
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: Good-bye, MTR!

Joined:
4/9/2008 12:11 pm
From Wilderness, VA via Hacker Valley, WV
Posts: 14518
I had a thread about that, but no one wanted to dicuss it. They kept dragging the Marcellus Shale into it.

Posted on: 1/14/2011 4:34 pm
_________________
We couldn't beat a freshman VT QB.....sad
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: Good-bye, MTR!
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
1/18/2008 2:39 pm
Posts: 8385
I remember that thread!

Posted on: 1/14/2011 4:38 pm
_________________
Beati pacifici
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: Good-bye, MTR!
Party Machine
Joined:
1/25/2006 9:00 am
From Southern WV
Posts: 530
Just so we're clear, you people are cheering increased unemployment and poverty in our state? You people are cheering a government agency having the power to rescind good-faith agreements backed by solid science and designed according to the rules and regulations put forth by those with far more knowledge and expertise than those of you who laud this as some sort of victory for the people? I find it curious that the ones who are so concerned for WV and her people and can't believe how horrible we can be to our earth have moved away from the mountain state to live in cities where jobs are plentiful and nature has already been destroyed.

Posted on: 1/14/2011 5:20 pm
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: Good-bye, MTR!
Party Machine
Joined:
4/29/2007 10:53 pm
From Northern WV
Posts: 681
Thanks rocket, the hardest part so far is getting the ball rolling but it's picking up steam. Right now, this project seems impractical due to the depth of the heat source (5-7km deep). Ironically, with all the Marcellus drilling that is going on, new techniques and technologies for drilling are being developed as we speak. Someday, the technologies created in the wake of gas and oil well drilling could be used to drill "steam" shafts to the depth required for a viable geothermal energy source. Most importantly, we don't have to sit around and wait for the state to get on board funding wise. Private companies are already feverishly developing the technology to our benefit.

I wish I would have seen that thread WVisHome. As you might have guessed I have quite a bit to talk about on the matter!

Posted on: 1/14/2011 5:25 pm
_________________
Almost Heaven, West Virginia
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: Good-bye, MTR!
Gettin' Schmitty
Joined:
1/18/2008 2:39 pm
Posts: 8385
Quote:

jjmwvu wrote:
Thanks rocket, the hardest part so far is getting the ball rolling but it's picking up steam.


I see what you are did - "picking up steam"...nice!

Posted on: 1/14/2011 5:39 pm
_________________
Beati pacifici
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: Good-bye, MTR!
Pitt Hater
Joined:
8/22/2007 7:48 pm
From Frederick, MD
Posts: 2601
I never understood how MTR was ever approved by the EPA in the first place. THe destruction to the environment couldn't be more obvious. There has to be a better way. I'll gladly pay more for electricity generated with coal from underground mining vs coal from MTR.

Posted on: 1/14/2011 6:22 pm
_________________
JFK: We will put a man on the moon.

Obama: We will put a man in your daughter's restroom.


Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: Good-bye, MTR!
Here for the Beer
Joined:
9/22/2010 8:19 pm
From morgantown
Posts: 303
you people are as blind as bats, how else are we going to get our energy? windmills? solar panels? thats a joke, solar panels can charge a AA battery but they are not going to give power to the state let alone a country, and the windmills basically takes off the tops of mountains and take up a whole lot of space.. oh and not to mention you have to mine the materials to make the windmills and they only last for so long. You all need to focus on the drainage sites from OLD abandoned mine sites because they didn't have many regulations back then and thats where most of the pollution comes from. Today most of the water on the sites are cleaner then your drinking water! also you do have to realize that they only take up 2% of the forest land in west virginia. Many of you probably haven't even been on a surface mine, well you may have been to star city which use to be a surface mine but anyways its funny because you pass MTR sites every day and don't even realize it

thats my rant... feel free and try to debate, i will just destroy you with my knowledge

Posted on: 1/14/2011 7:50 pm
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: Good-bye, MTR!
Here for the Beer
Joined:
10/3/2009 9:40 am
Posts: 381
jjmwvu I was just using a figure of speech or whatever you would call it with the China comment. I get frustrated with losing jobs and companys moving south, other companys going out of business and imports now providing the widgets. I agree with the one comment of the power plants being next, I think that was the comment our president made while in San Francisco. I dont buy the pollution thing with coal plants because most of them use scrubbers. Sure some of them dont, give them my stimulus money put contractors to work help the local economy and fix it. Whenever we use the word POLLUTION everyone starts crying until all the factories are out of business and then they stand around and say "good thing we shut them down or we probably wouldnt be able to exist right now". All the while nobody talks about how much filth and POLLUTION is released into the atmosphere whenever a volcano erupts and yet the earth keeps rotating. One more thing, I want every company in this country to be obsurdly profitable following the rules and regs of 2008. Unemployment NOT. Companys competing for workers by continually offering more benefits, you know, the free market thing. Well that was fun.

Posted on: 1/14/2011 8:53 pm
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: Good-bye, MTR!
Here for the Beer
Joined:
7/25/2006 2:36 pm
From Evans, WV
Posts: 455
I have spent 18+ years around the coal industry and anyone who would even suggest underground mining is in any way preferred knows nothing about mining. It is a complex issue that most people have no idea what they are talking about including most of the media reports. Ninety percent of the mines being reported as MTR are not even MTR mines. EPA is great they spew billions of oil into the Gulf truly the worst evironmental disaster in many years and blow it off as nothing because Lisa Jackson is from the area and that is a major industry. If you don't think coal with is a major part of the economy in this you are very misinformed. If the mining going on was so devastating why isn't that area a wasteland they have been mining the same way for the last 25 years.

Posted on: 1/14/2011 9:56 pm
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: Good-bye, MTR!
Here for the Beer
Joined:
7/25/2006 2:36 pm
From Evans, WV
Posts: 455
I should have read all the post before I posted. It was a waste of time. To the guy who said he studied mining and reclamation and a MTR mine can not be reclaimed it is people like you causing most of the problems. You may have seen some sites that weren't reclaimed but is just a false statement to say the can't be reclaimed. You folks are on the outside looking in and really don't have a clue as to what can and can't be done what should an shouldn't be done.

Posted on: 1/14/2011 10:20 pm
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: Good-bye, MTR!
Makin' it Rain
Joined:
6/12/2010 11:13 pm
From Jacksonville, FL via Parkersburg
Posts: 3634
"I have spent 18+ years around the coal industry and anyone who would even suggest underground mining is in any way preferred knows nothing about mining."

Not preferred by who? I know the coal companies don't prefer underground mining because it's cheaper to blast mountaintops into the environment and employ less coal miners.

I saw a statement above that they were a topside mining related family and would be put out of work by this. And by that does this mean that they do not do underground mining, or what?

Also, would be interesting to know the economic interests of those defending coal companies who want to employ as few coal miners as possible.

rd

Posted on: 1/14/2011 11:05 pm
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: Good-bye, MTR!
Pitt Hater
Joined:
1/4/2008 11:32 am
From Southwest VA ... via Pleasants County, USA
Posts: 1290
Quote:

kquick wrote:
I should have read all the post before I posted. It was a waste of time. To the guy who said he studied mining and reclamation and a MTR mine can not be reclaimed it is people like you causing most of the problems. You may have seen some sites that weren't reclaimed but is just a false statement to say the can't be reclaimed. You folks are on the outside looking in and really don't have a clue as to what can and can't be done what should an shouldn't be done.


Yeah, I have definitely seen a few mines that haven't been reclaimed. Pre- and post-SMCRA. The standard used to be, before MTR, returning the land to "approximate original contour" and revegetated. Explain to me, please, how you are going to "reclaim" a mine where you've chopped the tops off of two mountains, dumped the spoil in between them, and buried a stream under three hundred feet of rubble. How do you reclaim the water table? Planting a thin skim of grass on the spoil is, at best, like an undertaker putting lipstick on a corpse.

The coal industry is singing the same Polyanna song that they've been singing for the past sixty years. Seriously, it has not changed one bit: Our opponents are anti-business, anti-West Virginia, definitely communists and probably in league with our competitors. Only WE know what's best. It's the "outsiders" who are causing all the problems.

Never mind that everyone who lives downstream is an outsider. Well, those people are what we now call stakeholders. Their voices will be heard, by law.

I was busy with other stuff (you know, like paying work) for a few years after I completed my research in 1990, so I missed a lot of the radical expansion of MTR. But I've followed the development of policy pretty closely since Bragg v. Robertson in 1999, and especially since the interagency programmatic EIS that was finalized between 2003-2005 because of it. At no point since then has the coal industry been under any misapprehensions about what they could and could not legally get away with. Their mistake was assuming that they could continue to count on indifferent enforcement. Pure hubris.

The real variable has been the will of the various agencies party to the EIS (EPA, FWS, OSM, USACE, WV DEP) to enforce existing law. It's been a given for 40 years that DEP could be counted on to look the other way, and the Corps of Engineers has been not much less predictable. That's why the plaintiffs in Bragg stopped bothering with suing the coal companies and instead sued the agencies for what amounted to dereliction of duty.

So, kquick, I think it's safe to say that I have a VERY good idea of what *should* be done: FOLLOW THE LAW. It's the coal companies who seem to be too lazy, arrogant, and complacent to design a minimally-polluting mine, who are having problems doing what should be done. If they won't (or can't) propose a compliant MTM/VF project, well, I'm of the opinion the coal should remain in the ground until they can. That's the clue I'm picking up on, anyway.



Posted on: 1/15/2011 1:30 am
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: Good-bye, MTR!
Party Machine
Joined:
1/25/2006 9:00 am
From Southern WV
Posts: 530
Its funny, I spent four years of college and another 10 in the field working in order to get some insight and expertise as it pertains to permitting and mining coal. It was obviously a waste of time, all I needed to do was read a couple of "anti" articles and "pay close attention" from a couple hundred miles away, then I would have been an expert. So much misinformation being spewed forth by the ignorant.

Posted on: 1/15/2011 9:17 am
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: Good-bye, MTR!

Joined:
4/9/2008 12:11 pm
From Wilderness, VA via Hacker Valley, WV
Posts: 14518
So it's about jobs, huh?

Taken from WV Coal

Open in new window




From http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/coal/page/acr/table19.html....

WV currently employs 14,844 people in underground mines compared to only 6821 in surface mines.


MTR is a way for the coal companies to get as much coal, as quickly as possible, with the least amount of employees possible.....They don't give a DAMN about employees. In fact, if they could do the job with only machines, they would in a heartbeat.


From Wiki:

Economic development attempts on reclaimed mine sites include prisons such the Big Sandy Federal Penitentiary in Martin County, Kentucky, small town airports, golf courses such as Twisted Gun in Mingo County, West Virginia and Stonecrest Golf Course in Floyd County, Kentucky, as well as industrial scrubber sludge disposal sites, solid waste landfills, trailer parks, explosive manufacturers, and storage rental lockers.[1]

Cause we need more Golf courses, airports, sludge disposal sites, landfills and trailer parks, right?


Posted on: 1/15/2011 1:08 pm
_________________
We couldn't beat a freshman VT QB.....sad
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: Good-bye, MTR!
Grant Ave. Warrior
Joined:
7/26/2010 8:51 pm
From charleston, wv
Posts: 1103
Quote:

jjmwvu wrote:
Drew, I am working on this project now and it 'may' be a viable option....someday.

http://www.wvgs.wvnet.edu/www/geothermal/index.html

I'm all for continuing underground mining in this state. The benefits FAR outweigh the environmental impacts. But, read my previous post about MTR. We need to face the fact that coal will eventually run out. There are options on the table but our state and federal governments have blinders on for coal and will not invest a dime into these alternative means of energy. The only way another option will present itself is if we demand it or the inevitable occurs and we run out. By that time, it will probably be too late.

I'm for environmental responsibility, but I'm also for practicality.


Geothermal energy is all fine and well, but again if it was a VIABLE option to coal the market would make room for it and support it. Look I know there are lots of negatives to mtr/coal mining, but there are also alot of benefits. The coal mining industry creates thousands of jobs. It also pumps millions back into the state's cauffers through taxes.

Also, I really don't want the Gov't trying to invest in anything. That is simply not the govt's place. If there is an option for another alternative source of energy let the market do it, not the Gov't through regulation.

Also, I think somone mentioned earlier in an original post the true nature and power of the epa when it was created under the nixon admin. Anybody who references anything done or created under the nixon administration needs to go back and look at some of the things he did. Then look at what happend come election time.

Given the rate that mines are shutting down under our current administration I don't think we will be running out of coal anytime soon.


Posted on: 1/15/2011 1:13 pm
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: Good-bye, MTR!
Grant Ave. Warrior
Joined:
7/26/2010 8:51 pm
From charleston, wv
Posts: 1103
Quote:

83Grad wrote:
I never understood how MTR was ever approved by the EPA in the first place. THe destruction to the environment couldn't be more obvious. There has to be a better way. I'll gladly pay more for electricity generated with coal from underground mining vs coal from MTR.


Make your check payable to AEP. You don't even live in WV. Get a life, you probably dont even know a coal miner.

Does anyone know how many people were killed this year due to MTR mining?

Okay, how about underground mining?

Posted on: 1/15/2011 1:18 pm
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: Good-bye, MTR!

Joined:
4/9/2008 12:11 pm
From Wilderness, VA via Hacker Valley, WV
Posts: 14518
Quote:

DREW4WVU wrote:
The coal mining industry creates thousands of jobs.


Yea, 20,000 jobs in a state that has 1,800,000 people is such a huge percent....like a whopping 1.1%.

Posted on: 1/15/2011 1:19 pm
_________________
We couldn't beat a freshman VT QB.....sad
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: Good-bye, MTR!
Grant Ave. Warrior
Joined:
7/26/2010 8:51 pm
From charleston, wv
Posts: 1103
Quote:

boots wrote:
jjmwvu I was just using a figure of speech or whatever you would call it with the China comment. I get frustrated with losing jobs and companys moving south, other companys going out of business and imports now providing the widgets. I agree with the one comment of the power plants being next, I think that was the comment our president made while in San Francisco. I dont buy the pollution thing with coal plants because most of them use scrubbers. Sure some of them dont, give them my stimulus money put contractors to work help the local economy and fix it. Whenever we use the word POLLUTION everyone starts crying until all the factories are out of business and then they stand around and say "good thing we shut them down or we probably wouldnt be able to exist right now". All the while nobody talks about how much filth and POLLUTION is released into the atmosphere whenever a volcano erupts and yet the earth keeps rotating. One more thing, I want every company in this country to be obsurdly profitable following the rules and regs of 2008. Unemployment NOT. Companys competing for workers by continually offering more benefits, you know, the free market thing. Well that was fun.


Great Post!!

Posted on: 1/15/2011 1:20 pm
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 


 
Re: Good-bye, MTR!
Grant Ave. Warrior
Joined:
7/26/2010 8:51 pm
From charleston, wv
Posts: 1103
Quote:

WVisHome wrote:
Quote:

DREW4WVU wrote:
The coal mining industry creates thousands of jobs.


Yea, 20,000 jobs in a state that has 1,800,000 people is such a huge percent....like a whopping 1.1%.


That doesn't factor in all other areas affect by the coal. The amount of money injected into local towns and businesses, I. E. Walker Machinery, and all of the other heavy equipment shops that sell and repair equipment.

Again wv, quit whining about what we have and find something alternative that will employ just as many people and will be just as effective to keep the lights on.

Posted on: 1/15/2011 1:28 pm
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer
 



« 1 (2) 3 4 5 ... 7 »




Login
Username:

Password:

remember me





Copyright © 2004-2011 wemustignitethiscouch.com All Rights Reserved