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Green Energy a possibility for WV? (Geothermal)

Joined:
4/9/2008 12:11 pm
From Wilderness, VA via Hacker Valley, WV
Posts: 14518
Goolge.org-funded Geothermal Mapping Project Reveals Large, Green Energy Source in Coal Country





Could this be WV's way out of the "coal" age???





WV's current (coal fired) generating capacity is 16.35 Gigawatts....



...the CONSERVATIVE estimate for Geothermal generating capacity is 18.89 Gigawatts.


Posted on: 10/5/2010 11:49 am
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Re: Green Energy a possibility for WV? (Geothermal)

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Posted on: 10/6/2010 6:58 am
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Re: Green Energy a possibility for WV? (Geothermal)

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By all means, discuss how irrelevant WVU is instead.

Posted on: 10/6/2010 7:43 am
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Re: Green Energy a possibility for WV? (Geothermal)
Gettin' Schmitty
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Geothermal gets no respect on the national energy scene. ESPN (electrical source provider network) is in cahoots with the likes of the PAC 10 (prehistoric anthracite coal) and will continue to show no love for Geothermal...

Posted on: 10/6/2010 8:12 am
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Re: Green Energy a possibility for WV? (Geothermal)

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Quote:

MountyInSC wrote:
Geothermal gets no respect on the national energy scene. ESPN (electrical source provider network) is in cahoots with the likes of the PAC 10 (prehistoric anthracite coal) and will continue to show no love for Geothermal...









Posted on: 10/6/2010 3:13 pm
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Re: Green Energy a possibility for WV? (Geothermal)
Suspected Punter
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Yes, geothermal is absolutely a way for WV to move into the future. Problem is, the coal industry will lobby furiously against allowing any type of sizable infrastructure for geothermal energy.

Posted on: 10/6/2010 8:34 pm
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Re: Green Energy a possibility for WV? (Geothermal)
Suspected Punter
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Also, I did not read the article, so if what I said was stated in the article, my bad.

Posted on: 10/6/2010 8:36 pm
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Re: Green Energy a possibility for WV? (Geothermal)
Pitt Hater
Joined:
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From Parkersburg,WV
Posts: 2088
I find it interesting that alot of this information was made possible by the oil and gas development that alot of people are wadded up about. Natural gas also has the ability to get us away from the coal plants and also ease the dependence on foreign oil. This could be huge for the state and also for the people who own the 7,200 acres over this hot spot. If the government doesn't eff this up like they do everything else this could be a windfall for the state, possibly exceeding the gas boom.

Posted on: 10/8/2010 9:23 am
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Re: Green Energy a possibility for WV? (Geothermal)
Grant Ave. Warrior
Joined:
9/20/2009 11:32 am
From Morgantown
Posts: 808
Quote:

DonKeebals wrote:
I find it interesting that alot of this information was made possible by the oil and gas development that alot of people are wadded up about. Natural gas also has the ability to get us away from the coal plants and also ease the dependence on foreign oil. This could be huge for the state and also for the people who own the 7,200 acres over this hot spot. If the government doesn't eff this up like they do everything else this could be a windfall for the state, possibly exceeding the gas boom.

Actually, the info was made possible by the SMU Geothermal Lab which conducted the study. They looked at existing oil and gas wells as data points but oil and gas companies did not actively participate in the study or play a role in searching for new energy resources. That was all SMU with a grant from Google. We don't owe oil and gas for this one.

Natural gas could replace some of the coal used today but it doesn't do much for reduction in greenhouse gasses. I'd like to see investment in green tech rather than replacing one fossil fuel for another.

As for geothermal, it's an exciting possibility for WV. But understand this is very preliminary info. There's a lot of research that has to be done before they know if geothermal is practical for the state. Hopefully so.

Posted on: 10/8/2010 10:37 am
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Re: Green Energy a possibility for WV? (Geothermal)
Suspected Punter
Joined:
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From North Idaho
Posts: 112
Quote:

DonKeebals wrote:
Natural gas also has the ability to get us away from the coal plants and also ease the dependence on foreign oil. This could be huge for the state and also for the people who own the 7,200 acres over this hot spot. If the government doesn't eff this up like they do everything else this could be a windfall for the state, possibly exceeding the gas boom.


Hydrofracking is a bad thing. You don't want it going on anywhere near your family or your land.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100930/u ... nsylvania_natgas_fracking

Open in new windowOpen in new window

Hydraulic Fracturing FAQs

How does hydraulic fracturing work?
Hydraulic fracturing or fracking is a means of natural gas extraction employed in deep natural gas well drilling. Once a well is drilled, millions of gallons of water, sand and proprietary chemicals are injected, under high pressure, into a well. The pressure fractures the shale and props open fissures that enable natural gas to flow more freely out of the well.

What is horizontal hydraulic fracturing?
Horizontal hydrofracking is a means of tapping shale deposits containing natural gas that were previously inaccessible by conventional drilling. Vertical hydrofracking is used to extend the life of an existing well once its productivity starts to run out, sort of a last resort. Horizontal fracking differs in that it uses a mixture of 596 chemicals, many of them proprietary, and millions of gallons of water per frack. This water then becomes contaminated and must be cleaned and disposed of.

What is the Halliburton Loophole?
In 2005, the Bush/ Cheney Energy Bill exempted natural gas drilling from the Safe Drinking Water Act. It exempts companies from disclosing the chemicals used during hydraulic fracturing. Essentially, the provision took the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) off the job. It is now commonly referred to as the Halliburton Loophole.

What is the Safe Drinking Water Act?
In 1974, the Safe Drinking Water Act (SDWA) was passed by Congress to ensure clean drinking water free from both natural and man-made contaminates.

What is the FRAC Act?
The FRAC Act (Fracturing Responsibility and Awareness to Chemical Act) is a House bill intended to repeal the Halliburton Loophole and to require the natural gas industry to disclose the chemicals they use.

How deep do natural gas wells go?
The average well is up to 8,000 feet deep. The depth of drinking water aquifers is about 1,000 feet. The problems typically stem from poor cement well casings that leak natural gas as well as fracking fluid into water wells.

How much water is used during the fracking process?
Generally 1-8 million gallons of water may be used to frack a well. A well may be fracked up to 18 times.

What fluids are used in the fracking process?
For each frack, 80-300 tons of chemicals may be used. Presently, the natural gas industry does not have to disclose the chemicals used, but scientists have identified volatile organic compounds (VOCs) such as benzene, toluene, ethylbenzene and xylene.

In what form does the natural gas come out of the well?
The gas comes up wet in produced water and has to be separated from the wastewater on the surface. Only 30-50% of the water is typically recovered from a well. This wastewater can be highly toxic.

What is done with the wastewater?
Evaporators evaporate off VOCs and condensate tanks steam off VOCs, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. The wastewater is then trucked to water treatment facilities.

What is a well's potential to cause air pollution?
As the VOCs are evaporated and come into contact with diesel exhaust from trucks and generators at the well site, ground level ozone is produced. Ozone plumes can travel up to 250 miles.

Posted on: 10/8/2010 6:57 pm
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Re: Green Energy a possibility for WV? (Geothermal)
Pitt Hater
Joined:
12/31/2007 10:34 am
From Morgantown, WV
Posts: 1442
Interesting discussion. This is the area I work in so here is my two cents...

1) Geothermal energy is a promising source but not right now. The whole process depends on how much heat can be gathered and the deeper you go the more heat you find. The problem is that it costs a tremendous amount of money to drill to the level needed to make this a commercial process. It will catch on but right now I don't see it as economically feasible.

2) Hydraulic fracturing is dangerous but not as much for the chemicals as for the danger to groundwater. In projects I've been involved with only three substances have been used to frac shale: water (sometimes brine collected during drilling), bentonite slurry (a mix of water and fine clay), and a proppant (usually very fine sand). I'm sure there are cases of dangerous materials being used but in my experience they are few. The big problem is groundwater. Shale acts as a barrier to aquifers and separates them. What happens when we start blowing up the barriers that separate oil and gas reservoirs from aquifers that produce drinking water? As of now nobody knows but I think it could be a huge problem in the next several years

Posted on: 10/11/2010 12:52 pm
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Re: Green Energy a possibility for WV? (Geothermal)
Suspected Punter
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From North Idaho
Posts: 112

Posted on: 10/18/2010 2:27 pm
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Re: Green Energy a possibility for WV? (Geothermal)

Joined:
4/9/2008 12:11 pm
From Wilderness, VA via Hacker Valley, WV
Posts: 14518
I appreciate the information on the Marcellus Shale exploration, but...


Just to clarify, the article I posted was talking about Geothermal energy, not Natural Gas. I don't think that "fracking" is part of the Geothermal process, although drilling would be. "Dewatering" shouldn't be an issue either, because they're not trying to force the natural gas out of the shale.

Not tryin' to be a dick, just making sure that people understand the differences.

I don't want people to think that drilling the Marcellus Shale formation for Natural Gas is the same thing as tapping the earth's heat that's realitvely near the surface in WV for Geothermal energy.

Posted on: 10/18/2010 8:12 pm
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Re: Green Energy a possibility for WV? (Geothermal)
Suspected Punter
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Well said WVisHome. Sorry for getting all OT and hijacking your thread. The Soap Box has that effect.

Posted on: 10/20/2010 5:00 pm
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Re: Green Energy a possibility for WV? (Geothermal)

Joined:
4/9/2008 12:11 pm
From Wilderness, VA via Hacker Valley, WV
Posts: 14518
Apologies!?!

There's no 'Apologies' in the Soap Box!!




No prob man....it's a discussion. It's all good.


I just wish the people of WV would get off the coal companies' teat and wake up....our land is being destroyed, or rivers polluted, and our ecosystems irreversibly damaged and no one seems to give a damn.

Posted on: 10/21/2010 7:23 am
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Re: Green Energy a possibility for WV? (Geothermal)
WMITC
Joined:
1/6/2008 1:03 pm
From Here
Posts: 23547
I don't know much about this subject so I'll have to study up. I do believe that West Virginia needs to actively explore ways to grow or at least maintain the state's economy without a near-total dependence on coal.

Proposed new regulations, opposition to mountaintop removal, tragic accidents and the dwindling supply of coal suggest that if we don't look ahead for new opportunities, we'll be looking back some day and wondering where our economy went.

It's easy to say that alternate forms of energy are expensive and years away from viability, but they will always be years away from viability if we don't start developing them today.

Posted on: 10/21/2010 7:31 am
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Re: Green Energy a possibility for WV? (Geothermal)

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4/9/2008 12:11 pm
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Quote:

SaneJane wrote:
It's easy to say that alternate forms of energy are expensive and years away from viability, but they will always be years away from viability if we don't start developing them today.


Few truer words have been spoken...

This quote is really close to supplanting MountyinSC's in my signature. If anyone actually cared, it would.

Posted on: 10/21/2010 9:42 am
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Re: Green Energy a possibility for WV? (Geothermal)
Suspected Punter
Joined:
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From North Idaho
Posts: 112
Quote:

WVisHome wrote:
I just wish the people of WV would get off the coal companies' teat and wake up....our land is being destroyed, or rivers polluted, and our ecosystems irreversibly damaged and no one seems to give a damn.


I completely agree. Sounds like you might be interested in voting for this guy (errr...maybe I read somewhere you don't live in WV anymore?). I am pretty sure his is the house in the South Park area of Morgantown with all the solar panels and weird tubes running up the side of it. Delegate Paul Brown

I'll also add that while not the geothermal energy you are talking about, I have seen a cool use of the earth's temperature out in Tucson, Arizona. I visited an ex of mine there and she didn't have air conditioning, but what she did have was some type of aqueduct that ran under her home and the cool air was then vented up to her home. It worked amazingly well and the operating cost was very low. It's little things like this that I think we should be working towards. Imagine how much energy is being saved out there by people not running their air conditioning. I was there in March and it was 90+.

Posted on: 10/21/2010 1:43 pm
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Re: Green Energy a possibility for WV? (Geothermal)
Pitt Hater
Joined:
5/3/2008 8:47 am
From Parkersburg,WV
Posts: 2088
Quote:

eers wrote:
Quote:

DonKeebals wrote:
I find it interesting that alot of this information was made possible by the oil and gas development that alot of people are wadded up about. Natural gas also has the ability to get us away from the coal plants and also ease the dependence on foreign oil. This could be huge for the state and also for the people who own the 7,200 acres over this hot spot. If the government doesn't eff this up like they do everything else this could be a windfall for the state, possibly exceeding the gas boom.

Actually, the info was made possible by the SMU Geothermal Lab which conducted the study. They looked at existing oil and gas wells as data points but oil and gas companies did not actively participate in the study or play a role in searching for new energy resources. That was all SMU with a grant from Google. We don't owe oil and gas for this one.

Natural gas could replace some of the coal used today but it doesn't do much for reduction in greenhouse gasses. I'd like to see investment in green tech rather than replacing one fossil fuel for another.

As for geothermal, it's an exciting possibility for WV. But understand this is very preliminary info. There's a lot of research that has to be done before they know if geothermal is practical for the state. Hopefully so.



I never claimed that the oil and gas industry "participated" in the study, I stated that the information was a result of their activity. I also never claimed we "owed" them anything. I simply stated I foudn it interesting that the drilling produced and unintended benefit.

While natural gas is a fossil fuel it is by far cleaner than any other and definitely a viable alternative. Green energy sources are needed but right now they are not cost efficient nor readily avaiable.

There will not be a direct change to green energy there has to be a bridge. Right now the United States has an enormous amount of natural gas which can be used as that bridge. While not a perfect energy source it is absolutely worth consideration for an alternative to petroleum and coal.

Posted on: 10/26/2010 7:49 am
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Re: Green Energy a possibility for WV? (Geothermal)

Joined:
4/9/2008 12:11 pm
From Wilderness, VA via Hacker Valley, WV
Posts: 14518
Quote:

DonKeebals wrote:
Green energy sources are needed but right now they are not cost efficient nor readily avaiable.


Like SJ said....if we don't start developing green energy technologies NOW, they'll never be cost efficient or readily available...

EDIT: This is what he actually said:

Quote:
SaneJane wrote:
It's easy to say that alternate forms of energy are expensive and years away from viability, but they will always be years away from viability if we don't start developing them today.

Posted on: 10/26/2010 7:55 am
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